I'm curious as to how WSG members feel about this topic. I'm not involved in either port80 or WIPA (apart from making the occasional post to the port80 forums and having friends who are involved in both organisations).

It seems to me that both organisations are trying to do the same thing. port80 suffers from being Perth-centric, but is trying to pretend it isn't. WIPA suffers from being perceived as Sydney-centric, even though the majority of its foundation members are not based in NSW. East vs West.

Both organisations are doing cool stuff, like the Web Awards and the W-W-Web-a-thon. Both refer to themselves as associations for "the Australian web industry" (see this thread although it's unfortunate that the awia.org.au domain has already been taken -- nobody digs a .asn domain, guys, seriously). And both organisations are competing for the membership fees of their members.

As someone who could potentially benefit from being a member of an organisation like this, I must confess I find it confusing. There are some politics and territorial issues involved here but my view is that the two groups should just merge and capitalise on each other's strengths.

[edit: originally posted to Core Chat but moved to General Chat as I decided to open it up]

Interesting. Then of course there's WSG thrown into the mix.

The real issue would be if one of the organisations tried to set itself up as a national certification authority (which I don't think anyone has attempted just yet?).

Until then, does it matter if more than one group is running? People can find the group with the best fit/personality for them.

Over the last couple of months I've been planning a local WSG group here in Adelaide and I've also been speaking with Port80 about starting something up here, too.

My own work and (everyone on holidays over) Christmas has slowed my progress some, but by the end of February I hope to have had a WSG meeting, or two. (fingers crossed) And possibly a get-together with the other ...

I don't really mind what the group is called, be it AWIA/Port80, WIPA, or something entirely new. I'm involved because I want to help create a sense of community. I believe a merge of some kind would fit this philosophy perfectly.

With money involved, tho' (registrations, etc.) ... it's obviously going to be complicated. And, that's assuming it's an option at all. If so, I wish the driving forces of both movements a peaceful resolution.

Until then, I'll proceed as best I can. :-)

PS. If anyone wants to help out, I'd certainly appreciate it.

I should just clarify this as well:

"Unfortuneatly at the moment the response has been that WIPA does not currently want to discuss the idea of merging or formally working together and that the two organisations will work independently but 'complement' each other."

From what I understand WIPA needs to establish what their goals are before deciding on what action they should take - so there is still hope for the two organisations may work closely together.

First of all, I think all of this discussion is very important for the community - people need to be able to express their views and concerns.

I'd like to try and address some of the comments that have been made above.

1. WIPA AND Port80
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WIPA was founded to try to perform a number of objectives, including providing information and assistance to Web industry professionals through forums, mail lists, seminars, events and workshops.

WIPA was not set up as competition to Port80 or any of the other internet/web related associations. We are willing to work with all comers towards a common goal of representing the needs and aspirations of people who work in the web industry in Australia. We are also not aligned with any one sector of the industry (eg WSG, Usability, IA etc) or with any particular technology or industry platform. We are keen to see the industry in Australia develop and mature so that is able to fulfil the basic aims of the W3C and WAI.

While there might be some benefits in having one Australia-wide industry association, there are also definite advantages in keeping WIPA and Port80 as two different associations.

1. The two associations will be better able to provide greater diversity. Each will probably focus on different aspects of the Web Profession for the benefit of everyone.

2. People can choose the organisation that suits their needs. If one association is not focussing on aspects that they are interested in, there is a possibility that the other association may. And of course, some people may join both associations given the annual fees for both are not great.

3. There may be times in the near future when workshops can be organised and funded jointly by both Associations. Fully National workshops are always much harder to achieve with one Association, and there is always a danger that a single Association may focus on just one side of the continent. With two associations, one incorporated in NSW and the other in WA, we should be able to work together in presenting workshops across Australia and share the costs involved.

4. There may be times when resources are pooled to create a better product. For example, there is a strong possibility that the two groups will work together on a National Web Awards. Again, it would be very hard for one Association to cover the entire country without being stretched. With two Associations, this task is much easier.

I think the key here is avoiding overlap: as with almost all potential issues, this can be easily addressed by open communication.

I have met with various members of the Port80 committee in the first weeks after WIPA launched and there was an open dialog about possible concerns and issues. I have also chatted and emailed with Myles and we have openly discussed future projects and other aspects of the two Associations.

I would very much like to continue this open dialog. The last thing that WIPA wants to do is to undertake an action that could undermine or clash with Port80.


2. WIPA SYDNEY-CENTRIC
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WIPA aims to be a National Association and the committee was deliberately set up with representatives from a variety of states. WIPA's rules specifically provide for representation on the Management Committee from every state with 5 or more WIPA members. This is something we will continue to work towards as new members come on board.

While it is likely some of the earlier events will probably occur in the Sydney-Canberra-Melbourne triangle (mainly for financial/logistical reasons), WIPA will be moving as quickly as possible to having events in other states and cities.


3. FUTURE
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Like anything, time will tell. WIPA is in the process of building and then launching its website. As soon as this occurs we will be outlining a range of projects for the year, and opening up to membership. I think it will become clear when these exciting programs are announced that none of them will detrimentally affect Port80 or any other association.

Of course, you will all be the judge of this :)

Heh, sorry about that Lawrence - we do know you're a member, you're in the db, and I'll sort that out ASAP. The move to the new server and new membership system was obviously not as smooth as we had hoped! But we're now set to handle more members far more easily, and on our own virtual server.

The new site is now online:
Australian Web Industry Association

Business members also get a listing in the Australian Web Industry Index.

Like anything, time will tell. WIPA is in the process of building and then launching its website. As soon as this occurs we will be outlining a range of projects for the year, and opening up to membership. I think it will become clear when these exciting programs are announced that none of them will detrimentally affect Port80 or any other association.

So what do people think, now that the WIPA site has launched and events are listed. Do the two organisations compete? Can it work?

I'd just like to add something else.

What really bugs me about this whole thing (and it's more on the Port80 forum than this thread and it isn't the AWIA Committee people saying it, just general members) is that WIPA is being held up as Sydney-centric but there is no consistancy in the reverse argument.

I'd join the National Body AWIA in a heartbeat if I could enter Recycling Near You for an award (it does service WA communities very well!). But of course I can't because I live in rural NSW.

Now that's an AWIA Committee decision, and I'm absolutely cool with it (as I'm not a member and therefor have no right to complain), but AWIA members (and other WA residents that haven't even bothered to join AWIA but want to whinge anyway) need to judge their own organisation with the same parameters before complaining about what WIPA may or may not do.

Western Australian WIPA members (well, there is only one so far) are quite welcome to apply to be part of FullCodePress, as are WIPA members from any other state.

Decisions are made by those who show up.

Four more people from WA join WIPA and we'll elect one of them onto the WIPA Management Committee as per the rules of the association. Then that person gets to drive it as hard as anyone else on the committee. I had sincerely hoped that that person would be Kay, but unfortunately she had to decline due to other committments.

P